Benjamin Hobbs

Caroline Simpson: Hi, everybody. Come and join us for the final session of MIPIM 2026. Thank you for your resilience and your kind of absolute commitment for being here for this what I’m sure is gonna be an absolute brilliant session. It’s one I’ve really been looking forward to all week.

Before I go any further, I would like to introduce my co-panel members this afternoon. Ben, you are from Salford, but one of the graduates as part of the Greater Manchester Combined Authority. So, Ben Hobbs, very warm welcome to you this afternoon. And Abiola Ogunsami from Muse Developments but also has got a real connection back through to our work here in Greater Manchester linked to the Regeneration Brainery.

There’s been lots of talk over this week about our ambitions in Greater Manchester, our 10-year pipeline, and hopefully you have been kind of really bamboozled by the scope and scale about our ambition and pipeline for the next 10 years. But one of the big talking points and challenges is, well, how are we gonna make sure that we have the capability, the capacity in all its forms to really rise to that challenge and deliver on that ambition? And that’s exactly what we’re here to talk about this afternoon, particularly thinking about our future leaders for tomorrow. And here are two future leaders that we’re gonna hear from loads this afternoon.

So I’m gonna now hand over to Ben, who’s gonna give us a little bit of an overview of some of our work ongoing that’s already starting to lean in in Greater Manchester to that future skills pipeline. And then we’re gonna have a bit of a chat really, and we’re gonna hear from Abiola and Ben about their experiences so far. Ben.

Benjamin Hobbs: Thank you Caroline. So as you will have heard of plenty this week, our pipeline for development is absolutely massive. I mean, just in Salford where I work, we have in our pipeline over the next 20 years, over 50,000 homes and a million square meters of employment floor space. And because of that, we really need to start building our capacity. And I think what we’ve been sort of getting to grips with here in Greater Manchester is how do we do that from start to finish? I mean, we’re talking from sort of age 13 all the way up to age 35.

Now we have almost a pipeline, a pathway of what that looks like. And most of it comes back to our 10-year strategy, the Greater Manchester Strategy, with the Golden Thread really being that clear line of sight to jobs because we have so many sort of construction… I mean, the construction skills gap is huge. And because of that, we need people, local people, young people to be involved in that development pipeline.

So the Manchester Baccalaureate is our sort of framework for those skills, and it’s about offering a sort of alternative pathway because for the last 20, 30 years it’s been “university, university, university,” but that doesn’t fit for everyone. It isn’t necessarily right for everyone. So, what we really want to try and offer is a clear alternative pathway for that sort of technical vocational education. And that’s assisted by Beelines, which is this really handy online tool where kids as young as 12, 13 can go online, pick our sort of growth sectors that we spoke about plenty this week, and see: “How do I get there, what do I do?”

Once you go past the sort of GCSE level, you get onto T-Levels, and this is that sort of alternative pathway. It’s doing education whilst also doing proper, high-quality vocational placements. The GMCA has started offering these, as well as our fire and rescue service. And it’s one of those things that we do really need more of from the private sector because it’s about creating that really clear pathway.

What I’m on now is sort of the next level of that. It’s called the Place Graduate Program. And again, it comes back to the fact that we haven’t had capacity in our local authorities in sort of Place for many years. So, in our Place Graduate Program, you get offered a full-time job from GMCA, and there’s one person for every local authority, plus Transport for Greater Manchester. So, we’re all together on this sort of amazing program. I’m currently studying for a master’s part-time as well. And that’s just included in the program. And there’s a really full, whole learning program where you get to really become embedded, I suppose, in the Greater Manchester ecosystem. I think that’s what a lot of this is about. It’s about how do we make sure that everyone working on our development pipeline in all of our growth locations are embedded in that sort of ecosystem of Greater Manchester.

The newest thing we introduced last year sort of fills the gap we had between graduate-level and your sort of later mid-career development. And we’ve called it the Regeneration Skills Academy. It supports that sort of two to seven-year progression once you’ve got a career in regeneration, and it’s a 50/50 split between the public and private sector. So, we have places for all of our local authorities, but also all of our private sector partners. And again, it’s about embedding them within that sort of Greater Manchester ecosystem. No matter which company you work for, you’re gonna be working on projects that are in our development pipeline, that are in our integrated pipeline. And I think by coming together as a cohort and learning about the challenges that face the industry, about the sort of things we care about here in Greater Manchester—like social value, and helpful stuff, how to position yourselves for public sector funding.

Thanks to devolution, we now have more and more… I mean, especially with the launch of the Good Growth Fund last year, it’s so important that our private sector partners know how to position themselves for that. And again, it’s about putting knowledge into practice with the aim of bringing you properly into that Greater Manchester ecosystem.

And that then leads on to sort of a pre-existing, mid-to-late career professional employment development. We have the Future of Greater Manchester program. And again, that’s place-based leadership development. I think it’s quite unique what we have here. I think we are just still getting started with this skills journey, but I think that you can see even just from that graphic that we are creating that clear line of sight that will help support our development pipeline over the next 10, 20 years. And I’ll now pass on to Abiola.

Caroline Simpson: Thanks so much. That was brilliant. Excuse me. So, another absolutely fundamental part of our kind of how do we support talent has been the Regeneration Brainery, hasn’t it? And you kind of travelled through the Regeneration Brainery as part of your career. Would you mind just telling us a bit about where it’s now at in your experience of Regen Brainery?

Abiola Ogunsami: I think Regeneration Brainery is a special organisation that really holds a strong place in my heart. It started roughly back in 2017, and in that period of time, it supported, I think, over 7,000 young people to learn more about the property industry. It’s targeted around the ages 14 to 21 years old, but it’s not exclusive to that. And in the program, we have week-long work experience bootcamps where young people can come in, speak to some of the amazing people within this room who work in this wonderful industry and learn more about surveying, architecture, planning, marketing, construction.

Regeneration Brainery is born and bred in Manchester and is grown in this beautiful city, but has been doing bootcamps all over the country, and it’s only growing ever more. So I’m really excited about the future of Regeneration Brainery, and the whole purpose of the charity is to improve diversity and access into this industry. I feel like I’ve been a strong beneficiary of that as someone who wasn’t aware of this industry whatsoever before, getting the opportunity to go on bootcamps, go to networking events, go to conferences like this, and getting the opportunity to meet the people in this room and learn more about this wonderful industry.

Caroline Simpson: Thanks, Abiola. And you came to MIPIM before, didn’t you? As part of the Regeneration Brainery delegation. Would you mind just telling us a little bit more about your career and your story so far?

Abiola Ogunsami: I think it started roughly four or five years ago. I was doing an accounting and finance degree. I was in my second year, didn’t really know what I wanted to do afterwards. And I was quite fortunate that I had an older sibling, a sister who did architecture at university and went on one of the very first bootcamps back in 2017. And she asked me on a week where I just had nothing to do, “come on this bootcamp.” And I was like, “What are you talking about? What is Regeneration Brainery? We never heard of these people.” And I came on a week-long bootcamp, met some amazing ambassadors at the time, and just really wanted to learn more about this industry.

Caroline Simpson: Thank you. So, Ben, it’s your first time in Cannes this year. Tell us how you’ve got to be on this stage now. Tell us about your story. Are you happy to go?

Benjamin Hobbs: So, I suppose, for me, it started quite… I’m gonna go a bit far back, to be honest. So I’m from Tameside, East Manchester. I sort of grew up, went to my local state school. I was assisted through a bursary in college, and then I decided I didn’t want to leave the city. I was told so much, “Oh Ben, we really want you to apply for Cambridge or Oxford.” But I knew I didn’t want to leave. I knew that that would be sort of betraying a part of myself.

So I ended up going to the University of Manchester. I studied an undergraduate in business management and that’s a bit of a rogue choice, you might think. And that came from the fact that when I was in college, it was during COVID. And what I was really worried about at the time was employment. And I genuinely ended up googling “what are the most employable degrees” and went for the first one that wasn’t maths or science, ’cause I couldn’t have done that.

Spent a long time in university trying to figure out what I wanted to do because I had done that degree. I went down all these sort of stereotypical private sector careers and I just couldn’t quite find the right fit. There was a weird eight-month period where I thought I wanted to be a corporate lawyer. I went down to London, did a three-week placement with Slaughter and May, and I just came back thinking this isn’t quite the right fit. I wanted to do something where I could make a real impact and something that was at home.

So, I had always had a big passion for devolution. I was in the first cohort of people to get free bus passes off Andy Burnham. So, I literally had job notifications on for GMCA. I didn’t know anything about regeneration. I just wanted a job at GMCA, and it came up, I went for it. And it turned out that to get the job; you had to give a five-minute presentation on our spatial framework. And turns out I actually knew loads about that ’cause I had grown up down the road in Tameside from this site called Godley Green, which for anyone who knows, it’s been contentious. It’s been a long journey, and I’d been a big advocate of that. I just spoke about it for five minutes, and I think I basically got the job on passion.

So, I’ve been working now with Salford for the last year and a half. I get to do this amazing role where they’ve sort of shaped it around my strengths, spend half my time working on our development pipeline on sort of town centre regeneration, like Eccles. And then I’ve been doing a lot of work on public affairs, government engagement, making sure we can bring that investment into Salford. And it really is amazing. I’ve really loved it, and I can see myself sort of carrying on in that for quite a long time.

Caroline Simpson: Brilliant. Thank you so much. So, Abiola, you know that when you travel and as you’ve grown up in Greater Manchester, you can see that the city has changed: the skyline, the cranes, the level of building activity. But finding a way into being part of that growth and that energy and that development is something that we’re all striving to do. Do you think there’s more that we can do as a whole industry, as a partnership between public and private sector, to make that kind of connection to the young people of our city region?

Abiola Ogunsami: I think it can be challenging for young people sometimes, depending on the background you come from, when you see those skyscrapers grow up in Manchester and trying to connect whether that’s something that you can be a part of. You see it from a distance, but you don’t know: can you be involved in that? Can you be there? And I think the collaboration between the public and private sector and some of the organisations that are working, like Regeneration Brainery and others, to start as young as possible, to really demystify how those skyscrapers go up.

I remember going to an all-girls school to do a careers fair, and I was asking people what they think of when they think of construction, and the two things that always come up are real estate agents and bricklayers. And that’s it. But the industry is so much wider than that. And I think it’s just demystifying that as young as possible and then trying to show young people how the journey goes from high school, college, university, if you want to go through that route, into the industry is the way forward.

Caroline Simpson: Thank you. And Ben, what do you think we could do to make those career paths more appealing from your perspective as well?

Benjamin Hobbs: I think the first thing that we need to do is recognise the real challenge ahead of us. And that is that we do have a massive skills crisis. We have an ageing workforce, and we have a low birth rate. It’s only gonna get worse on site for a lot of employers. And I think that line of sight that we talk about so much in Greater Manchester at the moment, it is sort of broken in a way. And training and education and vocation isn’t necessarily leading to employment. Especially when you’re going to college and let’s say you’re studying bricklaying but then coming out of college and not being able to get a job.

I think in Salford, something we’ve done recently, which I think can start us on that path of getting there, is we used our development pipeline and all the data we hold on our development pipeline to create a report that calculated exactly how many people in each sort of skill we need for our development pipeline. How many carpenters, how many bricklayers, how many joiners? And that was produced in collaboration with colleges and the university, and then shared with employers as well.

And I mean, at the moment, only 31% of construction employers offer any sort of work placement and only 20% offer apprenticeships. And I understand that it takes more resources to bring, especially further education students, into work, but that current approach is a bit of a ticking time bomb in my opinion. And I think if something doesn’t change, we’re not gonna be able to build all those homes that we know we have in the pipeline in Greater Manchester.

Caroline Simpson: Okay. So, you have a wealth of industry experts, leaders in the room this afternoon. What would you say that each and every one of us could do to really support that next skills talent pipeline? Abiola.

Abiola Ogunsami: I think in supporting that pipeline is just taking… while starting in your organisations, taking the young people that you have in your organisations on a journey and just supporting them to grow into those middle leadership roles, those senior leadership roles, and then to connect with other organisations to really expand on the story of Greater Manchester.

Caroline Simpson: Thank you. Ben, any asks of the room?

Benjamin Hobbs: I think I’ve already set out the foundation’s a big one. It’s about taking those risks on younger learners. They’re not as easy to sort of take on as industry changers or older people or veterans. But with that challenge that I’ve set out with the ageing workforce, with the lower birth rate, it is only gonna get more and more dire. And providing those apprenticeships is the best way we can tackle the big challenges. I mean, Greater Manchester has been growing faster than anywhere else in the UK at the moment, but you look at deprivation statistics, you look at NEET statistics, we will still have quite an uphill battle across all those fronts. And that’s not gonna change without providing those proper opportunities and fixing that line of sight for young learners.

I think we also need a bit of a PR push in the industry. We need to make it more attractive for young people to come into construction. Greater Manchester is currently full of building sites across every single one of our 10 boroughs. We need to get young people into those sites and say, actually this is really cool, and it pays a lot of money, probably more than I’ll ever earn. I think those building sites, why aren’t they sort of entryways and classrooms for young people to develop a passion for development?

And I suppose most importantly, it’s not something we’re gonna fix alone. We need to work together. Things like this exist to bring us together with private sector partners. And I think that’s the only way we’ll fix that broken line of sight at the moment. It’ll involve a lot of things. We’re already working on the sort of MBacc, T-Levels, the different development opportunities already available in Greater Manchester, but it’s not gonna work without genuine collaboration between public-sector, developer partners, tier one contractors. It’s gonna be a team effort.

Caroline Simpson: And I think the points that you made, Abiola, about how young really we need to target to really get that kind of sense of excitement and confidence about “yes, these opportunities are for me” is a really important point. I mean, the role that schools play, and teachers play in young people’s lives is really important, isn’t it? I think there’s room for much more collaboration with schools and colleges.

Abiola Ogunsami: I think so. I think that part can be quite challenging for educators. Just one, getting the knowledge of how broad the built environment is, on top of all the responsibilities they already have in educating young people, and then selling that story to the parents of those children, because you need to get them on board as well to get the children’s push for those opportunities. I think it’s quite challenging, but I do think there are opportunities for organisations to come into schools, where possible, to help along that journey.

Caroline Simpson: And I think the same is possibly true of colleges and universities, if you’re taking that route, making sure that they’re kind of rooted in what the industry has to offer, you know, the range of different professional services and skills that you need. So, I think there’s more work. Do you think we could do there, Ben as well?

Benjamin Hobbs: Oh yeah, absolutely. I think it does come back to the fact that for 20, 30 years we’ve been saying university’s the only way. It goes back to the Blair targets for 50% of people to go to university. It’s created this sort of path where if you aren’t really education heavy from a young age, you get to sort of college and you think, “Okay, well now I have to do something like bricklaying.” But then you do that and there isn’t a job after it. And I think there’s a lot more work we can do on making sure that that’s a viable pathway that can lead into those jobs that we see and help build those skyscrapers in Manchester or our big employment sites like Atom Valley and New Carrington.

Caroline Simpson: Brilliant. Well, you are on that journey already, both of you in a really good way. Where do you see yourselves in five years’ time?

Abiola Ogunsami: I think hopefully still making my way through this industry, hopefully still at Muse. Becoming a chartered surveyor, and being supported to do a master’s in real estate and property management at the University of Salford. So, graduating through that as well. I think just being a part of this amazing industry and continuing to work with a lot of the amazing people in this room to deliver change in Manchester.

Caroline Simpson: Brilliant. I have no doubt. I have no doubt. Ben?

Benjamin Hobbs: I mean I’ve said this a lot this week, but I’m fully committed to local government. I think we really do have something special here in Greater Manchester, and I think that when you look at the fact that we have 10 local authorities with so much going on across all of them, you can live lifetimes of different careers. There’s so much going on. I don’t think I’d ever get bored. I’m enjoying what I’m doing now. I’m enjoying regeneration, I’m enjoying getting to do work I think has a real impact. And I suppose in five years’ time we’ll be about halfway through that integrated pipeline, so hopefully I’ll still be working on that and making a bigger impact.

Caroline Simpson: Brilliant. So, it’s been a really busy week for everyone here at MIPIM. What have been your highlights, Abiola?

Abiola Ogunsami: As part of the MIPIM challenge program that we’re both on, we’ve had a few mandatory and optional events to attend. And I attended a roundtable workshop on Wednesday morning, and I got to speak to some people from New York, from Germany, from Portugal about built-to-rent and other types of living accommodation. And there was someone from New York doing a fireside chat, and they talked about their affordable living targets. And it was just interesting to see that no matter what country it was, some of the challenges are still shared. We still have the same problems. I think that was really interesting.

Caroline Simpson: Brilliant. Only in MIPIM can you get that conversation going. Ben?

Benjamin Hobbs: Oh, this whole experience has been mind-blowing. It’s just been the craziest experience. I suppose my highlight was on Monday we had the Housing Matters conference. And I think that’s interesting because at sort of events like this, it isn’t always at the forefront of the conversation. Affordable housing and housing provision is so important. And I mean, in Greater Manchester at the moment, we’re spending £75 million a year on temporary accommodation. These are the really big challenges ahead of us. And I got to take part in a roundtable on homelessness, talking about how do we tackle that huge monstrous challenge. I was surrounded by all these experts who knew a lot more about it than me. And it was just a fantastic learning opportunity. But also, I suppose it shows that at events like this, we are thinking of those things as well. It isn’t all just about asset classes and built-to-rent.

Caroline Simpson: Thank you. So, we’re coming to the end of this session. Is there any questions from the audience before we conclude?

Audience Member: So, I’m at the thick end of my career now heading towards retirement. What would you ask from someone like me, for someone like you, what would you be doing to help you?

Benjamin Hobbs: I mean, offer mentoring to any young person in your industry, in your company. I think mentoring is a huge one. I think that institutional knowledge is something that’s lost in many places, especially in local authorities when lots of the knowledge relies on a few individuals. So yeah, offer mentoring to the first young person in your company you can find.

Caroline Simpson: Thank you. Any other final question? Oh, sorry. Hi, Tom.

Tom: Alright. Well, firstly, I’ve gotta say how impressed I am with Abiola and Ben. They both come across very, very well and are a credit to the industry, so thank you very much for that. And you’ve touched on a couple of the key issues that really are a challenge to our industry. And the big one for me is the perception issue of the industry. It’s huge. And the perception issue is not necessarily with the young people, but with their parents. So I do an awful lot of work with going out into their schools, etc., just trying to get people interested in the industry and whilst the pupils are willing to listen to you—”Yeah, yeah, sounds very interesting”—when you meet the parents, the parents have got a completely different view of the industry. That’s really in the sixties and seventies, that’s where their view is. So, I suppose the question to you two guys is, how do we move that perception on, how do we actually get the parents interested in pushing their children into the industry?

Caroline Simpson: Great question. Great question. Do you wanna go first? That is a tough question.

Abiola Ogunsami: I wonder if there’s any opportunities where we can get the parents and the children in the same place. I guess I’ve been to lots of schools and career fairs and I had that same experience where young people are always really engaged to talk to me about development and how to get into the industry, but I’ve not had the opportunity to speak to the parents. I think where we can put them together at the same time to educate them both, I think that would be really beneficial. How that happens, I’m not sure, but I think that would be a way to start.

Benjamin Hobbs: Yeah. I think that getting them in the same room would definitely be an amazing idea. I don’t think there’s gonna be an easy fix. I think it’s something that we probably need support from the government with, on a wider education of what our industry does, why it’s so important. I think the government do a great job of setting these big targets, but not necessarily showing how we’re gonna bring everyone on that journey with us. And it does start from that young age, from getting the parents on board and making sure that they don’t think it’s just bricklaying or financing. Yeah, a difficult question.

Caroline Simpson: So you’ve stood up well to it, both of you. So, well that draws us to the end of the session. Will you join me in a massive thank you to Abiola and Ben. Brilliant. Thank you so much. And shortly, we will be having the final drinks session. So please stick around. Thank you.